Why I despise the iPhone.

[waveydavey]

Well I disagree on both points. There's definitely Cut & Paste in our S640 WM6.1 ROMs. As for the UI most providers supply some kind of GUI in WM devices and if you don't like it you can change it for another one. That's much more flexible than Apple and if you look at something like Mobile Shell 3 much much better. Maybe they don't have a problem with screen res, but they would be gutted if they went from the iPhone to something like the Xperia.

[Griph]

So we have the beautiful easy to use iPhone, and we have the all singing technically superior WM device. But - which is better - the iPhone or the WM device? There is only one way to find out!
FIIIIIGGGGHHHHHTTTTT!

[waveydavey]

Hehehehe! How about no holds barred swinging on a rope conker styly?
In the red corner, the iPhone, in the blue corner how about the HTC Advantage.....

[Bassey]

Originally Posted by waveydavey

Well I disagree on both points. There's definitely Cut & Paste in our S640 WM6.1 ROMs. As for the UI most providers supply some kind of GUI in WM devices and if you don't like it you can change it for another one. That's much more flexible than Apple and if you look at something like Mobile Shell 3 much much better. Maybe they don't have a problem with screen res, but they would be gutted if they went from the iPhone to something like the Xperia.

And there's definitely not in my S730!

Yes most providers stick a GUI on there and they are mostly rubbish but in any case every single one is different. You really aren't comparing apples with apples (see what I did theree) mate, slating the iPhone for not having good security is like complaining that the PS3 isn't very good for making CAD drawings. Whilst the iPhone and WM devices do the same basic job they come at it from completely different angles, one is aimed fairly and squarly at the enterprise and the other at the average person in the street.

I know you have an irrational hatred of Apple's ability to enthuse a customer base (my god, they are telling half truths in their ads, I've never seen anyone do that before!) but they have managed to drag a completely new swathe of people in to the Smatphone arena. As I've said I have over 100 WM users at work and I can assure you that not one person "loves" their phone, they are just tools to them, good toold but tools nontheless. However I know quite a number of people who would profess to loving their iPhone, they don't have to try too hard to make the thing perform

[waveydavey]

Originally Posted by irblinx

You really aren't comparing apples with apples (see what I did theree) mate, slating the iPhone for not having good security is like complaining that the PS3 isn't very good for making CAD drawings. Whilst the iPhone and WM devices do the same basic job they come at it from completely different angles, one is aimed fairly and squarly at the enterprise and the other at the average person in the street.

I see what you're saying there, and to be honest I'm just as frustrated with Microsoft as Apple for this. I don't think the devices should be allowed to run EAS unless you CAN lock them down securely. MS shouldn't have let Apple run EAS on the iPhone until it was secure, and I know a lot of IT Pros that feel the same way. By giving it EAS functionality you immediately throw it right into the mix as an Enterprise device.

Originally Posted by irblinx

I know you have an irrational hatred of Apple's ability to enthuse a customer base (my god, they are telling half truths in their ads, I've never seen anyone do that before!) but they have managed to drag a completely new swathe of people in to the Smatphone arena.

I know advertisers are a bit liberal with the truth but to say "look how quick and easy this is" and then have tiny writing saying "actually there's a lot more to it and it takes a lot longer" is just plain wrong. It's SO American. I've not noticed many UK adverts that are so blatantly misleading.

[Griph]

Originally Posted by waveydavey

I see what you're saying there, and to be honest I'm just as frustrated with Microsoft as Apple for this. I don't think the devices should be allowed to run EAS unless you CAN lock them down securely. MS shouldn't have let Apple run EAS on the iPhone until it was secure, and I know a lot of IT Pros that feel the same way. By giving it EAS functionality you immediately throw it right into the mix as an Enterprise device.

I'm not quite clear on what security issues you are referring to Dave - do you mean http://gizmodo.com/5042332/huge-ipho...mation-at-risk?

Originally Posted by waveydavey

I know advertisers are a bit liberal with the truth but to say "look how quick and easy this is" and then have tiny writing saying "actually there's a lot more to it and it takes a lot longer" is just plain wrong. It's SO American. I've not noticed many UK adverts that are so blatantly misleading.

I dont think Apple are the only ones to blame here - the 'trimming' of the time taken for a particular event in ads has been a common practice for some time - I dont honestly think it necessarily is a trick to fool people on how long something takes - but a practical solution to the limits of what you can show during an time limited advert - and at least they do state this during the add.

I am sure also that Apple aren't the only ones to be accused of 'iffy' advertising - Microsoft themselves have had equal criticisms in the past http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/04/hpms4301.shtm and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02...oft_pocket_pc/ are just two examples.

So ... perhaps it depends on whether people are Microsoft Bashers or Apple Bashers?

[waveydavey]

Originally Posted by Griph

I'm not quite clear on what security issues you are referring to Dave - do you mean http://gizmodo.com/5042332/huge-ipho...mation-at-risk?

No, I mean the fact that the device cannot be encrypted, and that you cannot use ANY AD security policies on the device. I also know for a fact that the remote wipe doesn't always work either.

I've got more if you're interested, but the document is pretty long.

Originally Posted by Griph

I dont think Apple are the only ones to blame here - the 'trimming' of the time taken for a particular event in ads has been a common practice for some time - I dont honestly think it necessarily is a trick to fool people on how long something takes - but a practical solution to the limits of what you can show during an time limited advert - and at least they do state this during the add.

I am sure also that Apple aren't the only ones to be accused of 'iffy' advertising - Microsoft themselves have had equal criticisms in the past http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/04/hpms4301.shtm and http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02...oft_pocket_pc/ are just two examples.

So ... perhaps it depends on whether people are Microsoft Bashers or Apple Bashers?

2001, is that the best you can do?

[Bassey]

Oh come on, it's hardly the same thing. And the "they do it so why shouldn't we" is a bit weak as well. The entire POINT of the adverts was to show how quick and easy it is to install apps on an iPhone. The voice over is telling you "This is how easy it is to install X on the iPhone". Meanwhile, a VERY small disclaimer at the bottom that ONLY appears at the end states "Some required steps were omitted and sequences shortened". Just because the ASA are a bunch of toothless wet blankets doesn't justify showing an advert designed to show the public how easy it is to install apps whilst onot actually doing so.

It's as bad as the "Unlimited broadband downloads" (downloads are limited) Ads. It's just lieing - end of story.

[fowljr]

To play devils advocate, the AD or Exchange policy can enforce the device pin on an iPhone, or it did on mine when I tried it...